WEBVTT Kind: captions; language: en-us NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:40.000 *starting from second 40* 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:51.700 We are three minutes late, that's okay. 00:00:51.700 --> 00:01:01.900 I think we can see each other. I feel a little bit lonely because you are distant. 00:01:01.900 --> 00:01:02.849 But it works, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:01:02.849 --> 00:01:14.200 that's the situation. Some are following us on Zoom, and you are 9-10 person here. 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:15.600 That's okay. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:01:16.300 --> 00:01:20.500 I will talk about inclusion in the minority perspective. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:01:20.500 --> 00:01:28.700 Feel free to ask. Sometimes I don't have the words in English so we have to find them 00:01:28.700 --> 00:01:41.200 together. that's how it's functioning. I told my name is Ivar Morken and I born in Norway. 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:45.350 I'm from some valley on eastern part of this country. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:01:45.350 --> 00:01:56.600 I lived for five years up on the far north as near to the Russian, in fact Soviet Union border, that 00:01:56.600 --> 00:02:05.700 I can see the mainland or somewhere in Soviet Union, on a little fishing village. And often people talk about 00:02:05.700 --> 00:02:14.900 Norway as one distinct culture and people being very homogeneous but I think in fact that's a myth. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:02:16.300 --> 00:02:29.200 the population there were mainly Norwegian-Danish. we were part of Denmark for more than 200 years 00:02:29.200 --> 00:02:42.300 ago so it wasn't any special ethnic group. there were not any Sami people out there for instance but 00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:45.700 the culture is very different. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:02:45.700 --> 00:02:55.250 the way of living, the way of talking... everything was very different. and if you 00:02:55.250 --> 00:03:02.900 travel around in Norway you will see that people behave in different ways. if you had talked with 00:03:02.900 --> 00:03:07.450 Norwegians you would heard that they talk Norwegian in very different ways. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 00:03:07.450 --> 00:03:12.800 Sami people also have problems with understanding people from the West . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:21.100 After a week or two they are able to understand each others because the difference is not so big but still there are 00:03:21.100 --> 00:03:29.700 differences. And we have also how social political cultural conflicts between east and west, north and 00:03:29.700 --> 00:03:40.100 south, and even the middle the term is something for its own, so we have all these 00:03:40.100 --> 00:03:41.500 things . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:03:41.500 --> 00:03:50.700 I think this is common for most countries. and I live in Furuset. Do you know? I 00:03:50.700 --> 00:04:00.400 live in the eastern part. I've been there and in the neighbour schools 90-95% of the pupils 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.300 are immigrants or children of immigrants . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:04:04.300 --> 00:04:13.050 so when we talk about inclusion integration what is the normal situation there to be integrated into? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 00:04:13.050 --> 00:04:21.899 You can have some perspectives on that. the culture 00:04:21.899 --> 00:04:29.900 where I live is definitely not original Norwegian, so if you have to be integrated you might be 00:04:29.900 --> 00:04:32.400 integrated into something else. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:04:33.200 --> 00:04:44.100 and we also talked about Oslo as a very devided town with very different situations when 00:04:44.100 --> 00:04:56.600 it comes to money education. all this is very divided if you go around and see that. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:06.600 I think in most of the countries in the world is normal situation to learn 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:19.050 more than one language. I think the most common thing is that you don't learn many languages well but 00:05:19.050 --> 00:05:25.200 you learn to behave and to function on different languages. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:05:25.700 --> 00:05:29.900 that's the normal situation. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:05:29.900 --> 00:05:38.600 This Multicultural issues are part of the school too . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 63% (MEDIUM) 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:47.500 how shall we react to the different children's languages ? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:05:47.500 --> 00:05:56.300 we have had a problem. problem is a negative word but okay. not that negative but in the 00:05:56.300 --> 00:06:05.100 kindergartens for instance in the eastern part of Oslo 30 years ago was thought that newcomers 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:09.700 immigrants coming from other countries could start to drop in a kindergarten because they 00:06:09.700 --> 00:06:14.100 had to learn the language together with their children. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:22.300 but then after some years we have seen that all of this is terribly wrong because these children have to 00:06:22.300 --> 00:06:24.650 learn a Norwegian well. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:06:24.650 --> 00:06:33.800 and these teachers in the kindergarten are not able to learn them Norwegian properly so I think 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:38.250 that's part of what we are discussing now. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 00:06:38.250 --> 00:06:46.900 this is in fact also part of this referendum which is going to take place now. there is that 00:06:46.900 --> 00:06:53.600 political referendum moment. this is one of the issues we are discussing now. what to do with this . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:06:56.000 --> 00:07:04.800 And into these sit other problems. it's not quite clear what is meant by inclusion. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 55% (MEDIUM) 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.250 now we're going to talk about it NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:07:07.250 --> 00:07:14.500 but everyone is talking about the same Concepts using the same Concepts. they are using 00:07:14.500 --> 00:07:17.350 them in different ways for different purposes . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:07:17.350 --> 00:07:28.700 and that's always a problem. like International and especially in Norway we 00:07:28.700 --> 00:07:33.950 tend to be quite politically correct, we talk in the right way NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 00:07:33.950 --> 00:07:42.700 but we don't do exactly the same. so if you're going to learn the situation in Norway I think you have 00:07:42.700 --> 00:07:49.799 to look behind the words of the teachers and professors and the politicians to see what is the reality 00:07:49.799 --> 00:07:53.100 because that may be very different . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:59.900 perhaps that's the situation in every culture. I don't know. I know about Norway but here it's 00:07:59.900 --> 00:08:02.800 definit. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:08:03.100 --> 00:08:10.700 so I talked a little bit about Norway too because I think that may be interesting. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 00:08:13.400 --> 00:08:20.200 I have mentioned this lecture because it's talking about culture. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:08:20.300 --> 00:08:27.299 I will probably not have enough time to talk about minority language and mother tongue but if I get 00:08:27.299 --> 00:08:32.600 time I will go into that because that's also a big issue. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:50.100 we have about 800 thousand immigrants in Norway and about 200,000 norwegian-born persons 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:58.300 with immigrant parents. to get the point that's about 1 million. that's a big part of 00:08:58.300 --> 00:09:07.800 Norwegian population but a lot of these people are not situated in Oslo or in special parts in Oslo. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 67% (MEDIUM) 00:09:07.800 --> 00:09:17.700 The Pakistani people, for instance, have been here since the 1780s. they 00:09:17.700 --> 00:09:22.250 tend to go out of the town if they can't afford to live here NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (H?Y) 00:09:22.250 --> 00:09:33.000 and they argue the white middle class wants the children to be integrated into Norway and 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:38.100 have better schools than local schools in Oslo. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:46.800 ten to twenty years ago that was the argumentation from some of the white middle class. now we 00:09:46.800 --> 00:09:52.900 can see the tendency to some of the immigrants using the same arguments. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 72% (MEDIUM) 00:09:58.100 --> 00:10:02.900 more than 40% of the pupils in primary schools in Oslo have norwegian as their 00:10:02.900 --> 00:10:14.600 second language but there are seven scools with more than 90% And S8 with less than 10, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:19.800 so this is very divided. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:33.950 that's the situation in many towns I think. the Centrum, for instance Gr?nland, used to be 00:10:33.950 --> 00:10:42.650 inhabited by minorities earlier, but no young Norwegian tend to go into it . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:10:42.650 --> 00:10:49.300 lastly this gentrifisering which you can see in every big city in the western world. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:10:49.300 --> 00:11:00.600 when fabric homes is looked and made into concert locals and flats and things like that then the 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:10.100 poor part of the population go out to these areas and young middle class people come in. last again 00:11:10.100 --> 00:11:19.600 troughfication process and you can see it all over Britain, USA all over. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:29.400 but we also have some indigenous people, Aborigines. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 00:11:29.400 --> 00:11:35.000 you have probably heard about the Sami people, haven't you? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:46.400 not so many, I guess there are between the 10 and 20 thousands. there's also a discussion on the quarrel about 00:11:46.400 --> 00:11:55.700 who has the right to call them Sami people, so the figures are not so quite clear. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:11:56.900 --> 00:12:08.300 also some of them hide that they are Sami, so there may be some more. but this situation is not so easy 00:12:08.300 --> 00:12:11.400 either because there are different Sami people. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:12:11.400 --> 00:12:21.000 and the Sami people in south are not able to understand the Sami people in north. the languages are 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:27.900 different. so in Scandinavia all toghether are five, six different groups of Sami 00:12:27.900 --> 00:12:37.700 people. Norway have now three. we had a forth on the Russian border but I don't think 00:12:37.700 --> 00:12:41.900 there is a single one talking Samish. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:12:41.900 --> 00:12:48.300 so we have been able to rescue three of them. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:12:48.300 --> 00:12:57.600 and listen to the word I use "rescue" for here is to rescue a group of people when it comes to other 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:04.700 origins or indigenous people. when it comes to immigrants the situation is different. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:13:04.700 --> 00:13:10.750 we are not going to rescue or to help the Pakistani culture. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:13:10.750 --> 00:13:18.950 that would have brought us into problems with Pakistan because Pakistans are able to do that themselves 00:13:18.950 --> 00:13:25.200 so we have to be a little bit careful there with helping the people here. we are not 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:31.700 taking care of Pakistani culture, but when it comes to Sami, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:13:31.700 --> 00:13:40.600 we have to take care of Sami culture as we take care of IceSpears. the situation 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:46.250 may be that they will not be here anymore in 20, 30, 40 years. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:13:46.250 --> 00:13:57.300 so that makes very different situation when it comes to International one. but there are 00:13:57.300 --> 00:14:04.700 also some other groups because indigenous people is one thing, National minorities something other. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:14:04.700 --> 00:14:14.500 National minorities groups who have come to Norway at one certain time but stayed in here and elaborated 00:14:14.500 --> 00:14:23.600 their culture their way of living in a distinct way. so 400 years ago there were Finish people from 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:29.900 Finland, from the southern part of Finland who come to this part of Norway and this part from here to the 00:14:29.900 --> 00:14:33.650 border to Sweden and settled in the woods NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:14:33.650 --> 00:14:43.000 and lived by for themself in woods. I currently have no English words for them because they are 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:51.700 also part of a national minority but if I try to translate it's like Finlands in the wood. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:14:53.100 --> 00:14:57.200 It's not so NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:06.400 debated today but hundred years ago that was quite an issue because then a lot of them was talking 00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:12.050 Finish. no more but up in the north we have this last one 00:15:12.050 --> 00:15:19.000 which is also Finish but that are those from the north Finland coming to northern part of Norway in the 18th 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:26.650 century mainly. and they have elaborated the culture and language distinct way so there is a quarrel about 00:15:26.650 --> 00:15:28.550 is it finish or is it svensk, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 68% (MEDIUM) 00:15:28.550 --> 00:15:38.900 is it the same as the original language or is it something else. Roma (Romani), I don't know if 00:15:38.900 --> 00:15:40.900 you know these groups? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:15:40.900 --> 00:15:44.000 Sometimes we talk about gypsies NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:55.000 and sometimes gypsies is a very degrading word but in Norway we have a senior person who was, in fact, 00:15:55.000 --> 00:16:00.400 educated in the Moscow Opera from the Soviet time, Rio . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 68% (MEDIUM) 00:16:00.400 --> 00:16:07.250 Her daughter was together with Madonna. Her daughter has in fact tried to learn Madonna to dance . 00:16:07.250 --> 00:16:16.500 I don't know if she managed to make her dance but these are in a way quite big 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:20.600 persons but rather she insist to be a gypsy. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:27.400 she's proud of being a gypsy. that's not the degrading word according to her. it's degrading world according to others. 00:16:27.400 --> 00:16:35.000 and this is always part of these people to what are the right words and you will never 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:36.800 find the right word. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:42.000 someone will always react. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:50.600 and if the situation does shift for their people we are talking about the word we used today in good 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:59.300 intention will be twelve upon us bad words if the situation doesn't shift because I 00:16:59.300 --> 00:17:04.200 think this is not so much about words as we think. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:17:04.900 --> 00:17:11.700 in the field of disability in Norway we have to change the word for disabled persons a lot of 00:17:11.700 --> 00:17:15.349 times. At the beginning we talked about idiots. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:17:15.349 --> 00:17:24.000 there's a lot of other words but if the situation doesn't shift the conotation will just pour into 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.800 the new words. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.400 We have an Education Act. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:17:40.100 --> 00:17:42.350 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:17:42.350 --> 00:17:53.600 this is the talking on important days. I don't know if it's the reality but in chapter one NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:59.700 it's like this educational training in schools and training establishment shall in collaboration and 00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:04.900 agreement with the home open door to the world and give the pupils in the parenthesis historical and 00:18:04.900 --> 00:18:07.700 cultural insights on encourage. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:18:10.100 --> 00:18:14.050 that's the purpose of the school . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:18:14.050 --> 00:18:18.050 I don't know what purpose in your countries. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 00:18:18.050 --> 00:18:24.050 but this is formulated in a little bit different ways I think. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:18:24.050 --> 00:18:33.400 and then coming here immigrants have a little problem with collaboration with the home 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:34.950 for instance. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:18:34.950 --> 00:18:43.400 some of them may think that if you ask the parents about their own opinion, they think about 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:48.000 professor or about teacher because you have to answer yourself . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:18:48.600 --> 00:18:57.450 but this is deeply part of what we believe in democracy. the main persons to educate and to 00:18:57.450 --> 00:19:02.300 bring up the children are the parents. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:10.600 so the teacher are allowed to do this work on behalf of the teachers not on behalf of the parents. 00:19:10.600 --> 00:19:17.800 the teacher is allowed to do this work on behalf of the parents. so the rights of the parents are big in Norway. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (H?Y) 00:19:17.800 --> 00:19:27.600 Sometimes parents are not satisfied and they may even apply for court because they think the teacher 00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:29.900 has done a bad NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:32.700 work. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:45.600 if a parent says to teacher that I think my daughter is mobbed, the teacher can't just said no. 00:19:45.600 --> 00:19:47.250 that's not legal. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:19:47.250 --> 00:19:56.400 then you must make a statement, a formula, which the parents can apply on. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 63% (MEDIUM) 00:19:57.900 --> 00:20:03.000 that's it. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:20:11.100 --> 00:20:16.500 I don't know if I quite understand your question but NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 70% (MEDIUM) 00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:29.750 Try to explain a little bit more? Yes, this document is from Norway. 00:20:29.750 --> 00:20:39.800 This is the Norwegian act. It is part of the law. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:44.000 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:20:45.500 --> 00:20:50.700 When you open this paragraph, one is the intentions NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:20:51.000 --> 00:21:03.200 and you have to read the rest in the light of the first. this is a little bit more problematic than 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:09.600 has been discussed. the next pottery because educational trainings are based on 00:21:09.600 --> 00:21:14.100 fundamental values and Christian and humanist heritage and traditions. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 00:21:14.100 --> 00:21:20.800 such as respect for human dignity and nature on intellectual freedom, charity, forgiveness, equality 00:21:20.800 --> 00:21:26.800 and solidarity, values that also appear in different religions and beliefs and are rooted in human 00:21:26.800 --> 00:21:28.100 rights . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 65% (MEDIUM) 00:21:28.100 --> 00:21:32.700 what do you think is the problematic thing here? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:21:32.900 --> 00:21:36.300 One thing is very discusted. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:21:36.300 --> 00:21:38.900 maybe the Christian and humanist? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:21:38.900 --> 00:21:47.000 Christians talk about themselves as humanists and no. In Norway at 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:56.400 least, but it's about this Christian. there is is no discussion about some kind of Christian tradition, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:03.100 but of course there is a lot of discussion about if this Christian tradition is bad or good NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:22:03.100 --> 00:22:12.600 and what it really is. that is a fundamental problem because Christian tradition may not be 00:22:12.600 --> 00:22:17.700 very Christian according to our opinion today. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:29.200 so that is problem but the biggest problem here has to do with every pupils right. I will sumarize. 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:33.550 I don't have some religion in favor of others. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 00:22:33.550 --> 00:22:43.200 so there has been some groups going into the classroom and I'm giving Bibles to the 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:44.800 children. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 00:22:44.900 --> 00:22:53.200 there has been discussion in the Stortinget in the parliament recently which is going to stop this NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:22:55.800 --> 00:23:04.900 because Muslims, Atheists and Christians are going to be on the same level. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:23:09.700 --> 00:23:14.000 And then you have special education. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:21.050 Pupils who do not have benefit satisfactory from ordinary teaching have the right to special education. 00:23:21.050 --> 00:23:25.800 look at this. there is nothing about diagnosis here. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:34.600 and one of the biggest discussion on this department has to do about the relevance of diagnosis. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:23:35.100 --> 00:23:44.700 and I don't want to quit with the diagnosis but I think we rely too much on them. and I think 00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:53.800 that's a big problem in the feel so special needs education. And I am a discident and opponent in 00:23:53.800 --> 00:23:58.000 the department on in that issue I think. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:23:58.600 --> 00:24:07.400 I work with a lot of different children but a diagnosis have in fact never NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:15.000 gave me any help, it has never told me what to do. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:23.800 It has never really told me what child really was dragging with other. these things I had to find out 00:24:23.800 --> 00:24:25.300 myself. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:24:25.300 --> 00:24:33.950 the psychologists have not been able to give me any help there. they are are able to give me money 00:24:33.950 --> 00:24:45.100 because when they write their papers that might give right to special offers to that child so I 00:24:45.100 --> 00:24:50.900 get more lessons for instance, but what to do in that lessons is an optimum. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:24:56.500 --> 00:25:03.500 When it comes to assessing, what kind of instructions shall be provided? particular emphasis 00:25:03.500 --> 00:25:07.500 shall be placed on the pupils developmental prospects. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:25:08.100 --> 00:25:12.800 and that I think we have to figure out yourselves. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:25:12.800 --> 00:25:15.550 to know the child, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:25:15.550 --> 00:25:23.200 we can see sides of the child and his/her interests, what bagage they have from their home. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:27.450 I think that that's one of the biggest issues. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:25:27.450 --> 00:25:37.900 when I came up to the north, I think I had more than enough knowledge in math and Norwegian. 00:25:37.900 --> 00:25:46.850 the problem was that I didn't know what was in the mind, what is in the background of the 00:25:46.850 --> 00:25:48.650 some of the children. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:25:48.650 --> 00:25:55.400 and the first child I got in contact with, and the first parents I got in contact with, were those who 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:58.500 were most like myself. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.850 but it was to understand this others NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:26:03.850 --> 00:26:16.100 and what were their problems. I think that was the biggest issus. no diagnosis could tell 00:26:16.100 --> 00:26:17.650 me about that . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:26:17.650 --> 00:26:22.700 I have to go into the deep and be part of it and try to find it out. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:31.600 pupils who receive special education shall have the same total number of teaching hours as other 00:26:31.600 --> 00:26:37.000 pupils. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:47.150 That was for pupils with special needs but NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:26:47.150 --> 00:26:57.100 pupils from language minorities are not defined as pupils with special needs even if we can say 00:26:57.100 --> 00:27:00.900 they have some special needs but we differentiate here. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:09.100 so there is an other act there. pupils attending the primary and secondary school who have a mother 00:27:09.100 --> 00:27:16.200 tongue other than Norwegian or Sami have the right to adapt education in Norwegian 00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:22.900 because we have to teach them Norwegian in another way than we 00:27:22.900 --> 00:27:24.600 teach NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:34.000 pupils with Norwegian as their mother tongue, until they are sufficiently proficient in Norwegian 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:41.600 to follow the normal instruction of the school. if necessary such pupils are entitled to mother 00:27:41.600 --> 00:27:43.350 tongue instruction, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:27:43.350 --> 00:27:50.100 and 30 years ago we had a big discussion about mother tongue instruction. well, one argument for another 00:27:50.100 --> 00:27:57.000 tongue instruction has to do with the identity and culture. but I think that's not the 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:03.050 most important argument. the most important argument has to do with academic skills. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:28:03.050 --> 00:28:11.400 if you have the concepts your are solving problems inside your mind, if that is functional 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:20.300 best in your mother tongue, you will also learn the academic things best in your mother tongue. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:29.050 and you have to learn your mother tongue properly to be able to learn the second language properly. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 00:28:29.050 --> 00:28:37.400 that's a big discussion. but we see this in a lot of classes because when pupils came to the first 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:46.850 class, their progression is quite good. that might be for children with Norwegian as the second language 00:28:46.850 --> 00:28:55.800 and even for the children coming from parents that are 00:28:55.800 --> 00:28:59.150 not so skilled in language NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 00:28:59.150 --> 00:29:05.699 because of profession, or work, or other things. so this may also be the situation for some 00:29:05.699 --> 00:29:07.900 Norwegian born blekansikt. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 68% (MEDIUM) 00:29:08.500 --> 00:29:15.350 What is the word in English? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:29:15.350 --> 00:29:23.900 In the west and in USA we talked about the Indians and pailed, white pale people, something like that. 00:29:23.900 --> 00:29:31.000 But even some of these Norwegian born in north can have problems when they come do the fourth 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:32.250 class NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:29:32.250 --> 00:29:39.000 because they talk Norwegian but they haven't academic Norwegian. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:45.400 And that makes problems when you came to fourth class so in some International literature this is 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:52.100 talked about as the fourth class clash, so it can function very good up to when you start to talk 00:29:52.100 --> 00:29:58.650 about things which is not concrete for you. history, geography and things you cannot bring into the classroom, 00:29:58.650 --> 00:30:03.650 then the problems stop and then you can see what mother tongue is about. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 00:30:03.650 --> 00:30:08.650 because in some of these pupils get problems, but not all. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:30:08.650 --> 00:30:11.000 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 69% (MEDIUM) 00:30:11.300 --> 00:30:19.700 that's the reason why we are so eager to talk about mother tongue. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:30:19.700 --> 00:30:25.400 so there are different things adapted education in Norwegian language which about the construction feeling well subject 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:26.900 teaching. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 00:30:30.300 --> 00:30:36.500 the most systematically out of this now is adapted education in Norwegian. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 61% (MEDIUM) 00:30:36.500 --> 00:30:40.500 this situation have shifted a little bit. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 65% (MEDIUM) 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:47.600 so I asked about implementation, what is reality? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 00:30:47.600 --> 00:30:57.400 you can try to talk when you meet Norwegians and some children. Try to figure out what is the situation. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:03.500 they also had special rules for the Sami. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 00:31:03.500 --> 00:31:12.600 and they may in fact get their own curriculum, adapted curriculum for all the school. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:31:12.600 --> 00:31:20.100 so some of the communities up in the north may decide that in our community we shall follow this 00:31:20.100 --> 00:31:23.700 Sami, not the Norwegian curriculum. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:30.500 but then you have another problem because there are some Norwegians in that community and when they 00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:33.750 have to follow the Sami curriculum they protest. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 35% (LAV) 00:31:33.750 --> 00:31:36.900 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:47.500 so this is something to always have discussion about. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:31:51.900 --> 00:32:01.800 have you talked about these words? you use them differently? Yes. then I can take it quite fast I 00:32:01.800 --> 00:32:07.250 think. but in Norway at least we talked about integration in the beginning NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 00:32:07.250 --> 00:32:11.100 and inclusion from the 1990s. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:32:13.300 --> 00:32:20.500 I think the situation was in a way there was nothing wrong with the word integration, and with figurative out 00:32:20.500 --> 00:32:24.750 in the 70s but we didn't manage to NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:32:24.750 --> 00:32:27.800 put it into reality. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:32:27.800 --> 00:32:31.000 and then we changed the word. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:32:32.100 --> 00:32:40.900 for me it's something strange because if we go back to the beginning of the 00:32:40.900 --> 00:32:49.200 70s or 50 years back integration was formulated in much the same way as inclusion is formulated now. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:52.700 but the practice was different. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 68% (MEDIUM) 00:32:53.200 --> 00:33:01.700 so here too I think if the reality doesn't change, inclusion can also be a bad word inside my ears NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:33:01.700 --> 00:33:09.000 because we will put the reality into it. in the beginning it will be the definitions but then it will be 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:12.800 associate more and more with the practice. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 00:33:14.100 --> 00:33:18.700 but we still talk about integration of immigrants. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:33:19.300 --> 00:33:26.750 and if you talk about these concepts you will probably understand that because 00:33:26.750 --> 00:33:36.800 inclusion is to take care of everyone being here. you might be short or long, or black, 00:33:36.800 --> 00:33:44.100 white. that doesn't matter, we have to take care of all of them from the beginning to prepare the 00:33:44.100 --> 00:33:49.900 schools for plurality, but when there are newcomers NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:33:49.900 --> 00:33:56.900 they have to be integrated. we can't plan for them from the beginning because they have 00:33:56.900 --> 00:34:01.200 got part of their educations in some other place NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.350 and that makes some differences. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:34:04.350 --> 00:34:09.400 so there we still have to talk about integration. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 00:34:10.300 --> 00:34:18.449 integration may be about children having to fit into the classroom but then we take the 00:34:18.449 --> 00:34:26.199 stence that there is something with the children how to be fixed. that it is up to the children to fit 00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:34.400 into the classroom. but inclusion is about helping everyone on celebrating diversity. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:34:34.900 --> 00:34:45.250 well, that's different. I don't think I have some good examples from what is really going on but just to 00:34:45.250 --> 00:34:52.750 tell you a little about how some of the teachers are thinking I can tell you from the neighbors good. 00:34:52.750 --> 00:34:55.949 I'm sitting in the board of the school NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:34:55.949 --> 00:34:58.650 and on a meeting NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:34:58.650 --> 00:35:07.900 one other politicians asked the head of the school why don't you have another solution for NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 70% (MEDIUM) 00:35:07.900 --> 00:35:22.100 for mobbing. Zero toleration was what she said. I tried to translate it into English so that you understand . 00:35:22.100 --> 00:35:31.750 And the head of the school said "oh but that would not help". NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:35:31.750 --> 00:35:41.700 The children are not the cause of the mobbing, the school or the course. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:35:41.700 --> 00:35:47.399 so we always have to take responsibility for everyone, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:35:47.399 --> 00:35:51.100 for the offenders and for the mobber. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:35:51.100 --> 00:35:55.600 I see that no one is mobbed. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:35:57.700 --> 00:36:08.700 we can't make a nine-year-old child to a mobb. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:36:10.600 --> 00:36:14.500 that's the responsibility of the grown-ups NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:30.400 so these are just two different words and we are discussing that too. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:38.100 We talked about old wine on new bottles. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:36:39.200 --> 00:36:44.100 and that's very common in our field. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:36:48.600 --> 00:36:57.000 Beverly csme to intrusion. have you talked about these things? maybe differentiate about inclusion 00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.050 integration. you see I mix it a little bit here now. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 00:37:00.050 --> 00:37:08.900 because when a scientists or professors are writing about this it's not so clear when 00:37:08.900 --> 00:37:16.250 they go into it if they think inclusion or integration. they use the concept inclusion NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:37:16.250 --> 00:37:22.250 but the lot of what they say may indicate more integration. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:37:22.250 --> 00:37:30.350 so I have both here now. it might be about placement NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:37:30.350 --> 00:37:38.600 every child getting right to be educated in the local school for instance in an ordinary classroom. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:37:38.600 --> 00:37:41.300 there was NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:54.200 just some minutes on the news last evening about a boy in a wheelchair and not able to speak for 00:37:54.200 --> 00:37:55.750 himself. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:37:55.750 --> 00:38:01.900 he was included into ordinary classroom. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:11.400 there was nothing wrong with his brain so I don't know the diagnosis and why he wasn't able to speak, 00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:20.500 but some of the children were able to communicate with him in a combination with all files and words. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:31.800 and that was, at least, physical deterioration. He was part part of the group all the time and had all 00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:36.400 these education into this classroom. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:40.300 but then it comes to the social. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:38:40.300 --> 00:38:44.600 you see a part of the social activities? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:53.200 when it's birthday celebrations, for instance. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:38:53.500 --> 00:38:56.450 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:38:56.450 --> 00:39:05.300 all this is part of social inclusion. His parents said he was included NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:12.500 but I would guess in two or three years they will say something else. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:39:12.500 --> 00:39:18.399 Inn my opinion something is happening NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:39:18.399 --> 00:39:24.800 when the pupils come to 12, 14 years. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (H?Y) 00:39:25.100 --> 00:39:35.649 then something changes. he was aksed "what you want to be when you are grown up?" NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 00:39:35.649 --> 00:39:44.150 He tried to unset three things, and I think I understand he wanted to be NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:39:44.150 --> 00:39:46.700 policeman, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 00:39:47.200 --> 00:39:49.900 Soldier , NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:39:50.100 --> 00:39:53.100 or a president. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:39:53.600 --> 00:40:00.399 you can see he will never became a soldier or policeman. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 64% (MEDIUM) 00:40:00.399 --> 00:40:04.300 he may become a president. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 70% (MEDIUM) 00:40:05.700 --> 00:40:13.250 Roosevelt, when he was in Yalta, talking with Stalin, was sitting in a wheelchair. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 67% (MEDIUM) 00:40:13.250 --> 00:40:16.150 He was not able to go. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 00:40:16.150 --> 00:40:27.700 so we have that possibility, but mostly not. educationally most part of the learning 00:40:27.700 --> 00:40:36.300 activities, at least I think often is the hardest thing to work with some of the same stuff, when it's 00:40:36.300 --> 00:40:42.050 group activities are taking place how you are functional role together with the other, 00:40:42.050 --> 00:40:46.600 trying to solve the problems you're going to solve your together. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.400 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:40:49.600 --> 00:41:01.250 but perhaps the others were able to communicate with him and take his part into the products. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:41:01.250 --> 00:41:08.650 I don't know but that's what educational integration is about. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:41:08.650 --> 00:41:16.800 so you are part of the learning activities. not working with something quite different. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 00:41:18.100 --> 00:41:24.300 and when it comes to separate hours lessons in Special Needs education, I think it's important that 00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:28.200 they prepare you for what is going on in the classroom. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:41:28.200 --> 00:41:35.500 all the time thinking with the need to develop individual like your regular curriculum and the curriculum for 00:41:35.500 --> 00:41:42.600 all the other children talking with thinking these things together of how to get them to match. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 00:41:42.600 --> 00:41:45.400 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:41:45.600 --> 00:41:51.400 This is he important thing when it comes to integration, at least. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 72% (MEDIUM) 00:41:51.400 --> 00:42:00.900 And cultural could identify with the others, could identify with what was going others, they could read 00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:08.250 about many other children in wheelchairs in the books on school. I don't know if they had any 00:42:08.250 --> 00:42:15.300 teachers sitting in the winter, but this is important when it comes to cultural 00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:18.400 identification and arangement. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:25.600 so when it comes to minority children in the Norwegian schools 30 years ago we said that the 00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:33.850 problem was I never saw teachers like themselves. nowadays situation is different. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:42:33.850 --> 00:42:42.900 but that's that's also important when it comes to cultural identification and arangements. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 67% (MEDIUM) 00:42:42.900 --> 00:42:46.100 you feel you are part of this. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:53.400 what about the illustrations in the textbooks? how many black people are there? How many people in wheelchairs? 00:42:53.400 --> 00:43:03.400 So there may be conflicts between some of these dimensions. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:43:03.600 --> 00:43:12.400 You can try to think about yourselves but it's not easy to make them fit into each other all the 00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:18.000 time and the situation may also be very different for very different children. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:24.800 I'm also in another board, Nordval. you have probably not heard about it but it's a 00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:34.900 special school for artistic pupils and if no Norwegian and Norway had been so integrative as we like 00:43:34.900 --> 00:43:40.300 to talk about we shouldn't have any special school. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 00:43:40.600 --> 00:43:51.899 but we have quick with the state driven special skills, but the communities have made themselves 00:43:51.899 --> 00:43:58.700 so this has come from the from the local communities because they see the need for it. so even if the 00:43:58.700 --> 00:44:07.000 state has stopped the state special schools, we have got other local based special schools. 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.550 Nordval is one of them with 70 autistic people. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:44:10.550 --> 00:44:18.000 but these cannot be together, these pupils, because they are so different and they are disturbing each 00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:26.600 other so they are of course in different small group rooms. but we even may have an building by its own 00:44:26.600 --> 00:44:28.500 for six of them. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:44:30.200 --> 00:44:39.100 having your room for the everyones needs, have a room for the all, and at least two grownup people 00:44:39.100 --> 00:44:41.300 with them all the time. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 00:44:41.700 --> 00:44:46.400 And what does integration inclusion mean then? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:49.600 that's problematic. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:44:49.600 --> 00:44:57.700 it's easy I think when it comes to people with some just physical disabilities. that's just to make 00:44:57.700 --> 00:45:04.100 some lifts, or make the doors broather or their car coming with a real tree or something 00:45:04.100 --> 00:45:09.200 like that, and you know in Norway we, in fact, have the money to do that. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:45:09.200 --> 00:45:15.450 so here that shouldn't be a problem, but it is the problem . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 68% (MEDIUM) 00:45:15.450 --> 00:45:24.600 Have some of you heard about this professor? He used to be here and, I don't know his 00:45:24.600 --> 00:45:31.300 diagnosis, but he is sitting in the wheelchair and also having some other problems. he used to lecture 00:45:31.300 --> 00:45:32.700 here. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:39.100 don't talk too much about this because I don't think he would like it to be mentioned but a couple 00:45:39.100 --> 00:45:43.700 of times he came here and the lift was not functioning, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:45:43.700 --> 00:45:46.500 so he just left. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:45:47.100 --> 00:45:52.600 I think he felt it very degrading and never talk about it . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:45:52.600 --> 00:45:59.400 And he is one of the most important Norwegian authors, I think. He gets prices all the time writing 00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:06.450 poems, writing about social root, G is Professor on sociology NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:46:06.450 --> 00:46:08.700 all the time. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:16.400 it's all right adding some reality. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:34.100 I think we have to take a little stance now. 00:46:34.100 --> 00:46:35.800 okay NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:47:24.300 --> 00:47:32.000 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 58% (MEDIUM) 00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:52.250 *Teacher and the student are having a short discussion during the break, but voices are barely detectable.* 00:47:52.250 --> 00:47:59.750 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:47:59.750 --> 00:48:05.450 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:48:05.450 --> 00:48:15.200 00:48:15.200 --> 00:48:16.500 school NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 64% (MEDIUM) 00:48:16.500 --> 00:48:24.800 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:29.350 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:48:29.350 --> 00:48:42.700 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:48.700 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:48:49.100 --> 00:48:58.800 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:01.100 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 67% (MEDIUM) 00:49:18.900 --> 00:49:22.800 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:27.300 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 70% (MEDIUM) 00:49:28.700 --> 00:49:32.300 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 00:49:41.600 --> 00:49:46.800 *because every private school in order to get money from the state so this talk about private school 00:49:46.800 --> 00:50:00.400 and and it's because I promised to apply for funding from the state and how to give them* 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:02.400 *very simple question* NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 58% (MEDIUM) 00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:08.399 *it's not too safe and it's not official through either* NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:50:08.399 --> 00:50:15.000 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 65% (MEDIUM) 00:50:33.200 --> 00:50:45.900 00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:48.200 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:50:49.200 --> 00:50:56.200 00:50:56.200 --> 00:50:59.400 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:51:00.100 --> 00:51:08.200 *but my community I would say mentally retarded persons going to schools, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 62% (MEDIUM) 00:51:08.200 --> 00:51:10.950 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:51:10.950 --> 00:51:16.000 going to the same train station as I'm going to* NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 61% (MEDIUM) 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:19.000 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 57% (MEDIUM) 00:51:20.600 --> 00:51:32.900 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:51:39.100 --> 00:51:46.250 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 58% (MEDIUM) 00:51:46.250 --> 00:51:49.000 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 70% (MEDIUM) 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:56.800 00:51:56.800 --> 00:52:06.000 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:13.000 00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:17.200 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:52:17.200 --> 00:52:22.200 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:25.800 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:28.750 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:52:28.750 --> 00:52:31.300 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 36% (LAV) 00:52:31.700 --> 00:52:34.000 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 40% (LAV) 00:52:42.900 --> 00:52:45.300 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 70% (MEDIUM) 00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:53.600 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:52:56.300 --> 00:53:04.700 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:09.800 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 55% (MEDIUM) 00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:34.300 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 72% (MEDIUM) 00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:50.300 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:53:50.700 --> 00:54:01.100 00:54:02.300 --> 00:54:11.900 In some sociological teksts.. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:54:24.300 --> 00:54:35.950 I think I can't take all these questions. I think you have to follow up 00:54:35.950 --> 00:54:44.800 researchers and think about it but there is even more overall problem about all this because when 00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:51.399 politicians have a problem in the society it might be about integration, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:54:51.399 --> 00:54:58.600 people driving too fast drinking too much, young people doing things they shouldn't do. what are the 00:54:58.600 --> 00:55:07.900 problems? what are the solutions? if they don't find any other solution they say that the school must be 00:55:07.900 --> 00:55:09.500 killed. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:55:11.100 --> 00:55:20.550 and I think that's the situation in many countries. they may argue yet, yes, as you can't do this. 00:55:20.550 --> 00:55:28.500 One school did this and anothor did that, but no school can do all these 00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:30.400 things together. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:55:30.500 --> 00:55:40.000 and I think that's an important problem when it comes to schools. we give them too many things to 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:41.700 solve. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 67% (MEDIUM) 00:55:41.700 --> 00:55:45.950 The thing is NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:55:45.950 --> 00:55:52.950 it is possible to do something good but you can't do it all together. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 00:55:52.950 --> 00:55:58.900 and that's also a problem where it is comes to give us the good examples. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:55:58.900 --> 00:56:08.200 pretty good examples when it comes to good examples is always different things, but it's not possible 00:56:08.200 --> 00:56:13.800 to practice all these good examples together. so there is always something about this totality 00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:20.250 when it comes to school, which is problematic. And teachers are very often 00:56:20.250 --> 00:56:27.200 positive people, so someday just they say "okay we should try to do it", NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:37.100 but I think honesty is also about saying now to do some of the intentions. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 72% (MEDIUM) 00:56:41.200 --> 00:56:45.100 You can discuss it. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 00:56:48.300 --> 00:56:57.399 Billingham special education interface, some bilingual people have also learning disabilities. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:56:57.399 --> 00:57:06.700 In most Western countries some more bilinguals are diagnosed with learning disabilities and as a 00:57:06.700 --> 00:57:07.800 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:09.800 minority. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 36% (LAV) 00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:12.200 I'll let you know. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 00:57:12.200 --> 00:57:20.900 I think that's the common for most Western countries. That might have something to do with the 00:57:20.900 --> 00:57:30.000 diagnose presentages, but I think the most important reason is quite other thing. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 00:57:31.400 --> 00:57:37.100 Hence presence is difference in the world. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:48.600 we take care of children with medicines and upbringing, and dentists, and doctors from the beginning 00:57:48.600 --> 00:57:49.900 in Norway. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:58.100 And that's good for them. but some of the younger children coming here a lot being through that 00:57:58.100 --> 00:57:59.600 system. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:57:59.700 --> 00:58:04.000 and that may cause some problems. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:11.000 there are on the school where I'm sitting as the leader of the board, this school for autistic 00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:14.200 children in Oslo, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:58:14.200 --> 00:58:21.250 I think about 90% of the children they have immigrant background. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:58:21.250 --> 00:58:30.400 and we don't really know why so many. And this has nothing with the percentages of diagnosis 00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:38.100 because these are, you can say, heavily disturbed children. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 00:58:38.600 --> 00:58:44.700 most of them might have at least one ground up with them all the time. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (H?Y) 00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:52.800 the most of them are not able to go to the toilet by themselves. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:58:54.600 --> 00:58:58.700 they come to the school by a taxi. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 00:58:58.700 --> 00:59:02.900 that makes problem in the Corona time. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 00:59:02.900 --> 00:59:10.350 So they are very affected by because they are very close to other people all the time. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 00:59:10.350 --> 00:59:18.300 so last week 7 of these children couldn't go to school because so many of the teachers were not there. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:24.100 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:30.399 In Africa, for instance, you have some disease which you have no in Norway. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 00:59:30.399 --> 00:59:34.250 But that might affect for instance your eyes. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 00:59:34.250 --> 00:59:37.400 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 00:59:38.700 --> 00:59:44.500 We are very eager to test the hearing of the children NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 00:59:44.900 --> 00:59:55.900 but to test their hearing seems to be a little bit problematic because you can hear on 00:59:55.900 --> 01:00:07.600 long-distance but not on the other, you can hear light tones, but not the dark ones, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:00:07.600 --> 01:00:15.200 and then children may hide this very good. and sometimes the children may be checked NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 64% (MEDIUM) 01:00:15.200 --> 01:00:19.700 but it will be an attempt to see that they have some hearing problems. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:00:19.700 --> 01:00:28.100 when you get this infection in the ears, which small children often have, Norwegian parents are very 01:00:28.100 --> 01:00:35.500 eager to check because they know this may cause problems afterwards. I don't know if every 01:00:35.500 --> 01:00:39.400 minority parents are so eager to check all the time. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 01:00:40.600 --> 01:00:45.600 so there are all different reasons. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:52.800 And migrations may also cause some problems. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:59.900 We have a situation now small children coming to Norway without their parents from Afghanistan from Kabul. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 01:01:02.100 --> 01:01:07.250 And that, I think, children will not forget. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:01:07.250 --> 01:01:14.500 the problem with this most of them is that they don't remember in their head, remember in their whole 01:01:14.500 --> 01:01:15.850 body. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 01:01:15.850 --> 01:01:22.700 they remember in the way that they are not able to tell about, even for this sex which is just 01:01:22.700 --> 01:01:25.900 sitting in their bodies. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 72% (MEDIUM) 01:01:27.400 --> 01:01:37.800 historically, when the first immigrants came to Norway, there was a man coming 01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:39.400 first. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 01:01:39.500 --> 01:01:47.300 and his family was in some other place. four or five years afterwards they tried to unify and that was 01:01:47.300 --> 01:01:50.100 very often very problematic situation. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 69% (MEDIUM) 01:01:50.100 --> 01:01:56.800 they looked very forward to it but things has changed in the meantime. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 01:01:56.800 --> 01:02:06.600 the power of the family trying to unify was not the same as the family was split. the mother has got 01:02:06.600 --> 01:02:14.900 some new responsibilities, a new kind of freedom perhaps. I mean she came here she wasn't willing to 01:02:14.900 --> 01:02:17.200 give that up she got at first. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:02:17.700 --> 01:02:22.200 so there is also a lot of things NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 01:02:22.300 --> 01:02:30.900 which husband does with the process of migration which may also cause problems. and if you are going 01:02:30.900 --> 01:02:34.450 into the Mediterian trying to swim over it NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:02:34.450 --> 01:02:40.050 you will probably remember it for the rest of your life. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:02:40.050 --> 01:02:48.600 people don't ever forget something like that. even children don't forget. 01:02:48.600 --> 01:02:52.700 just a way of remembering is different. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:02:53.900 --> 01:02:59.000 Small children also see differences, for instance. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (H?Y) 01:02:59.300 --> 01:03:10.300 I used this situation to say it is important to see how different children are into the 01:03:10.300 --> 01:03:16.800 classroom, to be able to talk about it, talk about what's different. 01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:21.200 because if you're talking "all we are all alike", NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (H?Y) 01:03:21.200 --> 01:03:28.300 the children will become very suspicious because they can see everyone is not alike. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:03:29.600 --> 01:03:39.300 so that's the most stupid thing to do, I think. we must talk about differences in a way 01:03:39.300 --> 01:03:42.300 that differences don't count. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 01:03:42.300 --> 01:03:52.200 that's what much is about when it comes to diversity in 01:03:52.200 --> 01:04:04.200 the classroom. because we can't say that the boy sitting in the wheelchair has legs like all the 01:04:04.200 --> 01:04:06.700 others because he hasn't. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:04:07.300 --> 01:04:14.500 and you must be grown up enough to talk about that with the children. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:04:14.500 --> 01:04:24.650 I have a wife who was born without something in her hip and actually 01:04:24.650 --> 01:04:32.250 so she had a double problems in her hip and had to be opperated so much . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 01:04:32.250 --> 01:04:36.900 just been through a lot of operations and now it's about so much difference. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 01:04:36.900 --> 01:04:43.600 but when children are about three, four years, every child reacts on some shoes. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 67% (MEDIUM) 01:04:43.900 --> 01:04:50.850 they say "oh why are you in so funny shoes, they stink" NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 01:04:50.850 --> 01:04:56.300 and if you then say "Oh you think shoes are funny, I think they are fine" NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 01:04:56.300 --> 01:05:07.500 then the child becomes very suspicious because they understand it is something you want to talk about. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 01:05:07.500 --> 01:05:15.400 but if you then answer "oh yeah she have to have those shoes because when she was born 01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:18.700 we had some problems in her hips" and NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 01:05:18.700 --> 01:05:25.900 then the child lost the interest because if this is some trivial, so it's just about being born 01:05:25.900 --> 01:05:30.250 with something, then they lose interest. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:05:30.250 --> 01:05:36.100 that's my experience. so you have to go into things like this. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 67% (MEDIUM) 01:05:36.200 --> 01:05:46.600 don't take this talking about everybody is alike, because no one's like. we must be able 01:05:46.600 --> 01:05:48.500 to talk about how NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 01:05:48.500 --> 01:05:56.000 we are different in different ways all the time, but most of these differences don't count. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 57% (MEDIUM) 01:05:59.700 --> 01:06:02.000 Do you agree? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:08.500 I think this is important because in Norway a lot of teachers don't know how to talk. 01:06:08.500 --> 01:06:10.100 many strawberries NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:06:10.100 --> 01:06:18.400 *(student gives a comment: those things that you've been talking about I think it sounds like if you 01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:25.900 have been a person who is just reflecting upon it and using your consience and the inner 01:06:25.900 --> 01:06:32.300 thought, I'm trying to be really helpful and find solutions which is something that I've appreciated 01:06:32.300 --> 01:06:39.750 about you, but I was also wondering if we've got all that in Norway and NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:06:39.750 --> 01:06:47.100 there are lot of schools who don't really think about in this step. for example if a child is born with a 01:06:47.100 --> 01:06:55.700 disability and it's not a real chair is Autistic or whatsoever, and I think it is a bit left upon 01:06:55.700 --> 01:07:03.600 the teacher's humanistic values and the inner concerns that he or she decides to do something 01:07:03.600 --> 01:07:07.900 about it. so I was wondering in NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 01:07:08.700 --> 01:07:19.100 a low-level or what could we say to that. like how would we make sure that we have the rights, for 01:07:19.100 --> 01:07:27.000 example if I work in a school and I have a student who I need to do some modifications, for to make 01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:36.300 her a human fitting better and my boss doesn't agree to it, or I have a child who I have to I have to 01:07:36.300 --> 01:07:39.500 make sure that she or he fits in their classroom, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:07:39.500 --> 01:07:46.500 but the teacher is reluctant. Would I be able to go and complain to the justice system in Norway or 01:07:46.500 --> 01:07:53.400 is it anyone who takes care of this?)* You can complain. there is a system for this. I 01:07:53.400 --> 01:08:02.100 mentioned this parents saying that their child is moved. I'm in the school, then make a statement 01:08:02.100 --> 01:08:09.750 on the paper that it's not mobbed. then you can go just go to Statspegolte NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 01:08:09.750 --> 01:08:18.600 on the country level and apply there. that is the local level, but you can apply further to on the 01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:27.399 national level too afterwards. but if the situation changes, that's difficult because 01:08:27.399 --> 01:08:30.800 very often these parents NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 01:08:31.300 --> 01:08:37.800 they start process. They can get an agreement, but if they don't have very 01:08:37.800 --> 01:08:41.600 specific think to tell to the school, what they have to do , NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 01:08:41.600 --> 01:08:48.899 nothing will probably happen. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 01:08:48.899 --> 01:08:56.500 it's more concrete now than it used to be but I think it's a 01:08:56.500 --> 01:09:04.899 long way to go. and I think it's not this is not so easy because you rely too much on the 01:09:04.899 --> 01:09:14.800 single feature. you will allow another person that are doing some work in neighborhood community 01:09:14.800 --> 01:09:16.649 and government, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 01:09:16.649 --> 01:09:25.800 looking to all inclusion is down there. I think the head of the school, the organization, the 01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:28.500 headmaster is very important here. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 01:09:30.100 --> 01:09:42.899 so if the special ed teacher and the ordinary class teacher are able to cooperate, for instance, and 01:09:42.899 --> 01:09:46.399 if they cooperate outside the classroom ,inside of the classroom NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:09:46.399 --> 01:09:50.500 that's very much up to the head of the school. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 01:09:51.200 --> 01:09:53.700 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:59.750 you can't solve this problem as a single teacher. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 01:09:59.750 --> 01:10:09.000 that would be too late, too much responsibility on the the single teacher. *(student giving a comment: I think it's still 01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:15.000 what you said is very good because at least you have a place that you can bring this up with. you 01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:21.600 don't have to rely on personal science, whereas some of the statements that are being put by for 01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:30.500 example UNESCO and UN, it just gives me a feeling of like a place where there is big NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 01:10:30.500 --> 01:10:37.900 favorites and do not step on the grass and nobody looks at if somebody is stepping on the grass or 01:10:37.900 --> 01:10:41.400 like somebody's found accountable for it)* NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 01:10:41.400 --> 01:10:50.450 so we have this system to apply but you must have the resources to do the job and I think a lot of 01:10:50.450 --> 01:10:54.549 parents don't have the resources. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 01:10:54.549 --> 01:11:03.950 and, yes ,something must have happened so I think Norway is a little bit in between. we have the system 01:11:03.950 --> 01:11:08.000 but it's definitely not perfect. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 01:11:08.500 --> 01:11:15.250 and we have all these idealistic ideas from the UN system NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 01:11:15.250 --> 01:11:22.500 but it's just partly implemented. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:11:28.300 --> 01:11:33.100 but a minority situation may also cause problems. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:11:34.600 --> 01:11:38.350 if you meet with racism for instance, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 69% (MEDIUM) 01:11:38.350 --> 01:11:45.450 that's not good for you. if you are excluded from the other children, it's not good for you. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:11:45.450 --> 01:11:54.700 and this process is innovate taking place without the teacher being able to see it very often. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:11:54.900 --> 01:11:58.850 so this is thing we are discussing. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 70% (MEDIUM) 01:11:58.850 --> 01:12:05.900 Antropologist went into a neighborhood where I live and wanted to look how rasism system is 01:12:05.900 --> 01:12:13.300 functioning. she came into a glass and there was only one norwegian-born pair. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 01:12:13.300 --> 01:12:20.450 the rest were immigrants. their teacher said that all our children are color blind. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:12:20.450 --> 01:12:29.350 culture or religion doesn't mean anything for them. but atropologists think very differently from us. 01:12:29.350 --> 01:12:36.050 they stay on the spot for a long time. that's important. but when she had been there for some weeks, 01:12:36.050 --> 01:12:44.500 she started to hear what the children really were saying and how they really were reacting. 01:12:44.500 --> 01:12:51.100 so then you had these things from people from the North Africa NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 01:12:51.100 --> 01:12:57.500 talking and degrading about people on East Africa, for instance. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:12:58.300 --> 01:13:08.900 Persian and Arabic people don't like to each other. the two different groups of religious groups 01:13:08.900 --> 01:13:13.650 of Pakistani people don't like each other. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:13:13.650 --> 01:13:15.900 all this. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:13:16.500 --> 01:13:25.600 shall we call it racism? I don't know, but for the children it has the same consequences in the 01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:30.549 classroom. and all these things are taking place there all the time. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 01:13:30.549 --> 01:13:39.600 Maris brought these in Norwegian, what I have read now, but I suppose she has written 01:13:39.600 --> 01:13:41.800 about it in English too. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:13:44.400 --> 01:13:48.000 and we talked about this NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:59.600 children as having a triple problem with triple challenge. you might disagree. you might be from a 01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:06.000 minority. but you even have a low of social economic status NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:14:06.100 --> 01:14:12.600 I'm if you go to figuring to it the last thing is perhaps the most important. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 70% (MEDIUM) 01:14:13.300 --> 01:14:20.850 statistic sense has tried to figure it out and then say that the earning and educational of 01:14:20.850 --> 01:14:25.799 parents are much more important than language, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 01:14:25.799 --> 01:14:30.750 religion, what country your parents were born. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:14:30.750 --> 01:14:36.700 if you correct for money and education, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:44.400 most of the difference is away. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:14:45.700 --> 01:14:57.600 but that is problematic to count anyway so it's always discussed. but immigrant people very often 01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:01.600 tend to be two people at least for a time. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:08.100 till they have found that position and that takes a generations. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 01:15:08.700 --> 01:15:17.300 And it is the same for disabled persons. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 01:15:24.500 --> 01:15:31.800 so at least this is written, this is owned, and it's from the states but just the same tell you that 01:15:31.800 --> 01:15:37.100 this has been a problem for a long time all over the world. large number of dealing with children are 01:15:37.100 --> 01:15:43.700 identically a handicapped and do require special education services. special education services, but 01:15:43.700 --> 01:15:48.950 that doesn't mean special education outside the classroom. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 01:15:48.950 --> 01:15:54.600 This special education services may be given into the classroom. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 01:15:54.700 --> 01:16:02.300 I don't know how you do it in your countries but we often try to have two teachers inside. a special 01:16:02.300 --> 01:16:05.600 ed teacher and the class teacher. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:08.100 trying to cooperate, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 01:16:08.100 --> 01:16:12.800 to educate children. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:16:14.500 --> 01:16:19.500 so this this classroom with one teacher NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:16:19.500 --> 01:16:26.000 is not so common anymore. At least not on the lower levels. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 70% (MEDIUM) 01:16:35.500 --> 01:16:41.800 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 68% (MEDIUM) 01:16:44.200 --> 01:16:51.500 Disability limited English proficiency. I have translated this but it should have been Norwegian hear. 01:16:51.500 --> 01:16:57.300 Lower economic status. All these things are mixed together. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 01:17:02.100 --> 01:17:10.500 But here they don't talk about discrimination, racism, xenophobia and things like that . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:17:12.100 --> 01:17:21.900 Disabled persons have problems whereas when they apply for a job. very few mentally retarded 01:17:21.900 --> 01:17:23.350 have a job in Norway. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 01:17:23.350 --> 01:17:35.300 we have tried now political goals for this, but we are not being able to reach them and companies 01:17:35.300 --> 01:17:49.500 have to pay some different purposes also and to have a person over this, for instance two or five 01:17:49.500 --> 01:17:53.700 persons, may be persons with intellectual NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 69% (MEDIUM) 01:17:53.700 --> 01:18:01.050 disability, for instance. but we have not been really able to make it function. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (H?Y) 01:18:01.050 --> 01:18:11.200 and part of the same situation for people with some kind of handicapped also. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 01:18:11.400 --> 01:18:17.450 They are not so often within the labor market. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:18:17.450 --> 01:18:25.900 so that's also always a part of all this discussion because everyone has the right to a job. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:18:29.900 --> 01:18:38.100 But not in practice. so when they don't have, we think it is discriminating. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:18:40.600 --> 01:18:43.250 what is culture? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 01:18:43.250 --> 01:18:47.900 I wonder how for life I don't have the right answer. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 01:18:48.200 --> 01:18:56.600 it's it's one of these words you can find a lot of hundreds different definition. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 70% (MEDIUM) 01:18:56.600 --> 01:19:04.800 there are something written common between them, but there may also be big differences. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:10.500 but we can talk about the knowledge values, attitudes and traditions that guide behavior of a group 01:19:10.500 --> 01:19:17.100 of people, and allow them to solve the problems of living in their environment. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 01:19:17.100 --> 01:19:28.300 so Sami people solve the problems in their environment in a different way from me. Not all Sami people solve problems 01:19:28.300 --> 01:19:36.600 in a same way. it's the nobility of the Sami people, I think. living with 01:19:36.600 --> 01:19:44.400 reindeers. but they have a lot of knowledge about snow, about reindeers and cold weather and things like 01:19:44.400 --> 01:19:47.700 that, and a lot of concepts for snow which NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 01:19:47.700 --> 01:19:55.300 I'm not able to differentiate at all. and that has to do with their way of living. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:19:55.700 --> 01:20:05.800 that's the important way to understand culture. how we solve our daily problems in different 01:20:05.800 --> 01:20:06.900 ways and NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:20:06.900 --> 01:20:10.400 under different circumstances. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:20:11.900 --> 01:20:20.750 Tyler, this is the oldest definition, was part of the British Empire in a way. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:20:20.750 --> 01:20:23.000 so, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:20:23.800 --> 01:20:31.900 anthropology in the beginning was not about accepting people, it was about ruining people. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:20:31.900 --> 01:20:36.900 it was about understanding them to remove them. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:20:36.900 --> 01:20:45.000 wasn't it? I like to say this because we mix different ways of understanding, at least in Norway we 01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:49.200 mix the acceptance with the understand. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:20:50.200 --> 01:21:00.300 but as far as I have read the anthropology and started as part of all the Empire's Trying To Rule , 01:21:00.300 --> 01:21:06.850 The Columns. they had to understand the local population to rule them . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 01:21:06.850 --> 01:21:14.700 in culture is the complex how which includes knowledge, belief 01:21:14.700 --> 01:21:22.000 our medical abilities and habits acquired by man as a member of society. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 01:21:23.300 --> 01:21:33.700 it sounds nice, doesn't it? but if you shall do this to research, this is all too embarrassing, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:21:33.700 --> 01:21:37.000 at least at least from me. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 01:21:37.000 --> 01:21:43.200 I think I wouldn't know what to look for when if I should go into this. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 01:21:44.900 --> 01:21:49.200 and he has nothing about power and conflicts. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:56.500 I don't think you can understand any country without putting power and conflicts into it. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (H?Y) 01:21:56.500 --> 01:22:02.850 an important part of any culture is to solve the conflicts, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 01:22:02.850 --> 01:22:08.000 or the use power to keep the conflict down. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:16.300 but to do it in a way that we don't put the heads over each other. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 53% (MEDIUM) 01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:19.400 That is important part of every culture. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 72% (MEDIUM) 01:22:19.400 --> 01:22:22.650 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:22:22.650 --> 01:22:31.799 so when someone talks about accepting culture, I have a problem because I can't accept 01:22:31.799 --> 01:22:36.800 everything because it's culture. there must be some other reason. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:22:38.200 --> 01:22:42.400 because culture is not always good. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 01:22:42.400 --> 01:22:49.150 I growed up in Norway where are so many things in that local culture NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:22:49.150 --> 01:22:57.700 which I don't want to how in my baggage for the rest of my life. I have to get rid of it. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 01:22:59.100 --> 01:23:04.900 and I think it's the same for all of you. You must have some other arguments to accept something, 01:23:04.900 --> 01:23:09.500 some other argument than culture. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 01:23:11.400 --> 01:23:21.800 culture is transmitted learn. it's not nature, but people are not firstly nature. we are cultural 01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:29.200 beings, we can have some tendencies. I think to to see differences between people and perhaps even to 01:23:29.200 --> 01:23:37.000 react when you see a thing is very different. that might be part of your nature. but that's no good 01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:43.100 reason to follow it up. I can stop to be afraid of people with hijab. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 01:23:44.000 --> 01:23:52.900 it's not the natural. I can talk to one of you, we can become allies NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 01:23:53.300 --> 01:23:55.850 and it's my problem. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 01:23:55.850 --> 01:24:03.700 So this instinct from the beginning shall not be of the Year result in the end after. but I 01:24:03.700 --> 01:24:11.300 think it's important to see this if we have to fight it back. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 01:24:12.500 --> 01:24:20.200 not to say that "oh no, people have no distances", yes NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 01:24:20.700 --> 01:24:27.300 but it's not so very difficult to quite with it NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:24:27.300 --> 01:24:30.400 if we are aware of it. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:24:33.600 --> 01:24:43.950 so, this is about for instance cultural relativism. Have you heard about it? 01:24:43.950 --> 01:24:50.800 but when the Anthropologist went out in the world they understood that they couldn't lose their 01:24:50.800 --> 01:24:57.500 British eyes or they French eyes to understand the others. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (H?Y) 01:24:57.500 --> 01:25:06.750 we'll have to quite with their own baggage and try to look at the other group from the NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:25:06.750 --> 01:25:17.600 other groups point of view. that's in fact what impossible but we have to try. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:25:17.600 --> 01:25:27.250 if I shall try to explain what is a mosque and I take the Norwegian Church NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 01:25:27.250 --> 01:25:32.850 that's my point of view I will probably never understand mosque. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:25:32.850 --> 01:25:40.800 if I have this translation from one to the other I will never understand it. I have some of the 01:25:40.800 --> 01:25:48.100 mosques in my neighborhood, they are functionally quite different ways than the local church. and 01:25:48.100 --> 01:25:57.800 taking care of the children in quite different ways. so I have in my 01:25:57.800 --> 01:26:01.300 opinion I have to quit with my NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 01:26:01.300 --> 01:26:05.050 a picture of the church to understand the mosque. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 01:26:05.050 --> 01:26:09.050 I think that is NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (H?Y) 01:26:09.050 --> 01:26:11.900 part of all this. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (H?Y) 01:26:13.300 --> 01:26:20.000 don't see from my etnological point of view, not from my group of view, not to see the most 01:26:20.000 --> 01:26:27.800 from the Norwegian point of view, but see from the Muslims point of view. that's something else. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:26:29.000 --> 01:26:31.450 and then NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:26:31.450 --> 01:26:36.000 cultural relativism is about NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:40.300 understanding people in terms of their own culture. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:52.400 is it possible to understand other people? it's a different question. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:26:52.400 --> 01:26:55.800 but there are good reasons to try. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:26:56.300 --> 01:26:59.900 that's the only question I can think of. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (H?Y) 01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:06.950 Master relativism and in separatism? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 63% (MEDIUM) 01:27:06.950 --> 01:27:10.000 definitely not, I think. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 01:27:16.100 --> 01:27:22.200 a relativistis biggest mistake is failing to see that differences requires a background of deep 01:27:22.200 --> 01:27:29.800 similarity as a result it overemphasizes differences are failing to appreciate what is shared. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 58% (MEDIUM) 01:27:31.100 --> 01:27:33.250 And NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 01:27:33.250 --> 01:27:39.300 culture of being a Norwegian is only one part of my identity. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 01:27:39.800 --> 01:27:43.150 I am in other things too, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:27:43.150 --> 01:27:52.850 and after being at the University today, in the evening, in these days before this referendum, 01:27:52.850 --> 01:28:01.050 together with, for instance muslims youngsters much of the time. we are part of the same party, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:28:01.050 --> 01:28:05.750 and we are fighting the same campaign. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:28:05.750 --> 01:28:09.400 and that is unifying us now. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (H?Y) 01:28:12.500 --> 01:28:20.300 And others from the same ethnic groups may be part of other parties. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 66% (MEDIUM) 01:28:20.300 --> 01:28:26.500 and are our competitor now. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:28:27.000 --> 01:28:31.600 so this is in different situations. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:28:33.100 --> 01:28:41.100 and I think that's how it should work in a Democratic Society. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:28:42.100 --> 01:28:44.900 did you understand? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:28:48.200 --> 01:28:57.600 there is a difference between culture when it comes to method and moral because this 01:28:57.600 --> 01:29:04.500 should be about method. I must try to understand from the other point of view, not from my 01:29:04.500 --> 01:29:06.100 point of view. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 01:29:06.900 --> 01:29:15.500 then I must try to forget that as much as possible about my previous experience related to where I was born and try to 01:29:15.500 --> 01:29:22.800 understand people having a quite different history to tell because it may be false in the quite 01:29:22.800 --> 01:29:25.200 different circumstances. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:29:25.200 --> 01:29:31.100 But that's to understand when it comes to what I accept. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 01:29:31.100 --> 01:29:34.900 I still argue for my own positions. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 01:29:35.100 --> 01:29:42.950 but I can't be critical to you before I understood you . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 01:29:42.950 --> 01:29:48.100 If I critisize it before I understood, it's prejudice. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (H?Y) 01:29:48.100 --> 01:29:54.600 But if I try to have a discussion with you and I still think you are bad NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (H?Y) 01:29:54.600 --> 01:30:03.600 then I will probably say it, but not before I've been able to talk with you and being 01:30:03.600 --> 01:30:06.800 able to know you and had a discussion. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 62% (MEDIUM) 01:30:07.300 --> 01:30:11.700 and this is about the mortgage. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 01:30:13.700 --> 01:30:18.800 so it's the difference of the methodological tool. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 01:30:19.400 --> 01:30:24.300 this is about science in a way, NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 01:30:24.400 --> 01:30:27.000 social science. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (H?Y) 01:30:27.000 --> 01:30:35.200 but the more of Doctrine is about the etiquette of the political and that's something else. and very 01:30:35.200 --> 01:30:44.300 often answer very long distance between the size, and the politic and the practice. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 01:30:44.300 --> 01:30:49.800 I don't know if you have discussed this matter very much, but we learn who, for instance, about the 01:30:49.800 --> 01:30:51.200 brain . NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:30:51.200 --> 01:31:00.450 but it's very long distance from knowledge to brain to taking conclusions out of it, and putting it 01:31:00.450 --> 01:31:06.150 into some educational practice. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (H?Y) 01:31:06.150 --> 01:31:15.850 and some of the Norwegian doctors who studied the brain said this don't think you are able to 01:31:15.850 --> 01:31:22.600 take any concrete conclusions out of it. we know a lot about the brain but to learn 01:31:22.600 --> 01:31:24.799 people to educate people NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (H?Y) 01:31:24.799 --> 01:31:34.400 it's a very complex process. and to start with the brain, I think, you can make a prognosis or find out 01:31:34.400 --> 01:31:35.950 how to do NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:31:35.950 --> 01:31:41.799 that's at least today impossible. we are not there yet. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 65% (MEDIUM) 01:31:41.799 --> 01:31:44.900 And the NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (H?Y) 01:31:44.900 --> 01:31:50.100 science is always being there. our practical reality being that. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:31:50.100 --> 01:31:58.900 in Practical reality we have to take into accordance our own standpoints, moral, different situations, 01:31:58.900 --> 01:32:09.000 the dilemmas, resources, and a lot of things. This is something some of the professors cannot 01:32:09.000 --> 01:32:10.450 tell you about. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (H?Y) 01:32:10.450 --> 01:32:14.500 but it's part of reality. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (H?Y) 01:32:14.500 --> 01:32:16.750 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (H?Y) 01:32:16.750 --> 01:32:24.800 being a professor and listening to the politicians now in this days is hard because most of 01:32:24.800 --> 01:32:30.500 what politicians from left and rights say about school is NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (H?Y) 01:32:30.500 --> 01:32:40.600 stupid from what I think because this is too complex. we have easy ways of talking about this and 01:32:40.600 --> 01:32:48.900 they're easy solutions. I think it's much more problematic are complex. I think that was as much as I 01:32:48.900 --> 01:32:53.850 had for you. Do you have any questions?